Powell Dancing….
July 14, 2008
Really, you shouldn’t be reading this if you haven’t read the books in question: for one thing, you won’t get the jokes; and for another, here there be spoilers….neither should you read on expecting erudite analysis or a straight review: I haven’t read all those tedious canonical novels which are no doubt subtly referenced in “Dance”; and twelve densely packed books on frankly I can’t remember most of the details from the earlier ones….although I have seen the eponymous Poussin painting: a visit to the Wallace Collection is a must if you live in London: it’s off the tourist track but not difficult to find….if you know where it is….
I’ve just finished Anthony Powell’s majestic sequence of novels, “A Dance to the Music of Time” (aka “300 Characters in Awe of an Author”) and what fun it’s been. After laying down the final book I feel, as anticipated, bereft. Others have been here before. Part of me feels, as Ed Lake has exhorted, that I should start all over again, in order to appreciate Powell’s painstaking early set-ups whilst the pay-offs are still fresh….
Except that there aren’t really any pay-offs. Cunning as it was of Powell to subcontract the writing of the final volume “Hearing Secret Harmonies”, to Iris Murdoch (the hazily defined cult, mysterious standing stones, and the unidirectional daisy-chain of unrequited love between unusual people with unlikely names constitute unarguable proof), neither of these wonderful authors is at their best tying up loose ends or putting stories out of their misery. In particular, Widmerpool’s death, after a lifetime of behaving like an elephant in an origami showroom, is profoundly unsatisfying. Granted he’s been humiliated in the previous book and a half; but this reader wanted to see him suffer a bit more….
Likewise with Pamela: self-immolation to gratify the proclivities of Gwinnett seems an oddly selfless end for such a supremely selfish woman; totally out of character. I feel cheated by Powell’s casual shooting of both our fox and our vixen; we loyal readers deserve (and have earned) a longer and bloodier hunt. Trapnel would have turned in his gutter had he known….
At least Powell admits the existence of sex come the later volumes. That Nick slips it to Gypsy early on is casually slipped in by Powell: blink and you’ll miss it (Gypsy may well have concurred); whereas in the last couple of books, there is hardly an uncarnal sentence: liaisons homo- and hetero- are to the fore. Jolly good too. In between these extremes various pashes are outlined; I expect the dramatised TV series did all three variants proud (I haven’t seen it: I’m waiting for the promised Quentin Tarantino film adaptation: “Kill Ken Vols 1&2.” (The musical version will no doubt be called “A Dance to the Music of Tim”: notwithstanding that Mr Rice is primarily a lyricist….))
The sequence as a whole “is about” lots of things*: I’ll say here that “it’s about” the way some people seem to come and go in one’s life while others are mysteriously re-encountered on a regular basis. Had the books been written from Widmerpool’s point of view, we might have been treated to the hitherto unread scene where Ken takes out a restraining order to prevent Nick from stalking him. Indeed, some other characters might with justification greet Nick with “You looking at me, pal?” The role of coincidence is not understated. The preternaturally self-possessed Nick’s Big Secret is, I suggest, that he regularly mainlines shredded copies of an early version of “The Little Book of Calm”: how else to explain that he never once, despite witnessing some extraordinary events, lets loose a “Strewth!”, let alone the “Bugger me!” with which most of us would have been tempted….?
There is, to be fair, some justification for Nick’s placid demeanour: unlike the vast bulk of humanity who, after marrying and procreating, must pay a modicum of attention to their partners and loin-fruits, he, pace Lynne Truss, eats, shoots and leaves. He marries – if not at haste, then at least in lust – and then subsequently barely mentions his cypher – I mean his wife, Isobel – for the remainder of the series. When asked about her (by a former lover) in the final book, he changes the subject. His kid(s) (one, certainly; maybe more: who knows? Certainly not us readers) are even better behaved; only appearing post-partum as a transparent plot device to justify his visit to his old school, there to bump into – but no! Enough spoilers for now: in any case, you’ll never guess….
And that reminds me: “the” school is mentioned, as is “the” university and “a” non-specified but undemocratic and dictatored (dictated?) South American Country – rack my brains as I have, Powell has me foxed here (although I’ve narrowed down the South American Country….) Lots of undefined locations throughout actually; which is how I’d write a novel, truth be told….
There are so many beautiful details though: the titles of imaginary novels are my abiding memory – so silly and yet too plausible to list. And don’t you think if X Trapnel were alive today he’d be blogging his fiction whilst simultaneously taking the piss out of established writers? A name floats into view as a contemporary parallel – but alas! It’s slipped away….
The twelve books are wonderful: read ‘em and….? Meanwhile, I’m still left with the problem of what to read next: deduct ten points if you were about to suggest “The Alexandria Quartet” – I’ve tried and tried and, although I have read it before, can’t get into it now….I thought maybe some Coetzee; or possibly that early Booker winner by Newby (if I can find it); “Midnight’s Children” ? (yes; I know….); or should I try to plug some of the gaps and read something worthy and canonical….? Or perhaps something completely different: tell me, and I’ll review it here….if I get past the first half-dozen pages….
****
My Ten Dance Heroes (in no particular order)
Stringham
General Conyers
Mrs Erdleigh
Bithel
Ada Leintwardine
X Trapnel
Jeavons
General Liddament
McClintick
Gwinnett
****
My Ten Dance Villains
Sillery
Scorpio Murtlock
Jean Templer
StJohn Clarke
Kenneth Widmerpool
Pamela Widmerpool
Barnabas Henderson
Mrs Erdleigh
Isobel Jenkins
Nick Jenkins
****
*Should you want to read better analyses of “A Dance to the Music of Time”, I suggest this site, where some Andover College students’ essays are published: a few, I think, find connections unintended even by AP; others are spot on; all are thought-inducing. Good stuff.
July 14, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Steve, I got as far as “you shouldn’t be reading this if you haven’t read the books in question: for one thing, you won’t get the jokes; and for another, here there be spoilers” … and only continued as far as “Anthony Powell’s majestic sequence of novels” which I haven’t read – so, until your next blog or until I read the sequence, I wish you good speed and adieu.
PS how many books in the sequence – like, how many weeks am I isolated?
July 14, 2008 at 1:40 pm
god’s speed – I’m such a trip artist when it comes to blog typos
July 14, 2008 at 1:42 pm
So this is were the lit crit’s gone! If you’re looking for suggestions as to what to read next, I’d say try the Beckett trilogy as a kind of Powell detox course.
July 14, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Just checked the local library records – in the whole of Devon only “Molloy” is available….would it be worth reading this on its own? Your suggestion also prompted me to look for “Ulysses”, and I might (at long last) give that a go; even though I read “Portrait…” a while back & was distinctly underwhelmed. (My experience of Beckett btw is confined to one short story: we didn’t get on….)
(Searching for “Beckett S” in the library records amusingly also brings up Sister Wendy Beckett – I presume this wasn’t what you had in mind….)
July 14, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I’d try Molloy, and definitely Ulysses. Sister Wendy I’d pass on.
July 14, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I read First love last night. I’m reading The Expelled and Other Novellas, and then prob Mercier and Camier – and I’ll put up a post sometime.
I’ve been buying the trilogy in bits: I have Molloy and Malone Dies, but not the third one. I used to have it all in one book, but (in true Beckett fashion) I can’t remember what happened to it. It is all so difficult to remember stuff. Maybe I left in a room somewhere, where I was staying once.
July 14, 2008 at 3:45 pm
‘Murphy’ is the one to start with, cs. Nice linear narrative and no gristle. Very funny too.
July 14, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Murphy is excellent when you are in a frame of being that demands disgust. And a thin string only connects you to this grey cosmos.
July 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm
But it is very funny, freep. I’m with the frog aristo on this one.
July 14, 2008 at 4:00 pm
You know who I am, freep.
July 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm
The sucking stones passage is one of the funniest in any novel I know of.
July 14, 2008 at 4:18 pm
No “Murphy” in the Devon library system (except the Milligan one)….however there is a “Malone Dies” which I missed first time around….
Meanwhile: Keats on PotW….aaaargh….I’m with Billy in disliking (most of) Keats, but don’t want to get Carol’s thread off to a wholly negative start by saying so….
July 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Keats! THanks for tip, doggerel. Can´t discuss on your sequence of novels for light or heavy summer reading.
Billy, thanks for the explanation on “Arties she squats to piss…” it makes sense now, together with the second part of the poem.
July 14, 2008 at 5:10 pm
BM, MM: Murphy is uproarious. But excellent also at disgust, which I value highly. I have lost my copies of both Malone Dies and Murphy and if anyone has them, wrap them in a copy of the Angling Times and either send them back or set them afire in a dirty bar.
Keats is worth a good think, and what’s more, he went to the Isle of Wight. And I seem to recall that on a later trip he knocked on Wordsworth’s door at Allan Bank, but old horseface was out. Lucky Keats.
July 14, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Keats also visited my part of the country; and as far as I know he’s the only “proper” poet to have mentioned my home village in verse….on the whole, though, I prefer McGonagall’s piece about Torbay….
July 15, 2008 at 12:08 am
Sorry, freep, I only take the Daily Dapper, so I’m afraid it’s the bar.
I’m shocked by the disrespect shown to Keats here. His Fanny will be along tonight to sort you out. A flat, allegedly containing the room he stayed in, in the former Keats Inn in Shanklin was recently up for sale. In the photo the room was dominated by a huge TV. There were no bookshelves at all. A sad image.
July 15, 2008 at 12:32 am
Talent is clearly genetic in the Rosen family.
I hope the Prince’s toothache is better.
Now that’s a sentence I never thought I’d write.
July 15, 2008 at 6:19 am
Mowbray I liked you better . . . I mean I found you slightly less insufferable . . . in your old costume. Please take off that silly powdered wig, and as for those clothes … ugh . . . the less said about them . . . How DO you write such excellent poems, though. Amazes me to say that I’ve admired your pomenerd posts more than anyone’s else’s, lately, and by a long way. . . Yes best wishes from me, too, for relief from that sadistic-sounding tooth.
Lovely blog, dgg, and I’ll return to post properly as soon as I can.
July 15, 2008 at 7:30 am
I don’t suppose Keats liked TV much anyway, high definition or not.
Toothaches can take a lot out of a prince, y’know. Their sensibilities are finer than you can ever know. I know this because I found a dying one in my shed and he told me so, as he rearranged his cravat and passed decorously away, of ennui. He made excellent compost.
July 15, 2008 at 9:06 am
freepoland,
What plants are growing from your compost? As I think has been mentioned before, I like chokos. I’ve never had much success. This year I have two thriving plants; hope to have lots of fruit; can airfreight.
July 15, 2008 at 9:10 am
I think the Rosen Brothers could go far.
July 15, 2008 at 9:18 am
dgg, I am nibbling at this blog like an choc addict trying to make a bar last as long as possible . . . Still have no time for a coherent post. . . _but_, about:
‘A name floats into view as a contemporary parallel – but alas! It’s slipped away….’
Yes, the very same — with which mine was most flatteringly linked by someone in a recent comment — occurred to me in the identical context. Certainly when SJ blogged on Dance, but probably even before that. The thing about this series is that once you’re properly hooked, the characters never leave your head — and for me, are readily accessible, as in what the computerists call the buffer memory.
July 15, 2008 at 9:20 am
‘as in what the’ . . . I meant, as if they live in what the computerists etc.
July 15, 2008 at 9:30 am
Oh and this hilarious accidental discovery reminded me of a point obooki was making about Henry Handel Richardson (not someone I’ve ever read) in your Nostalgesia thread: http://boblets.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/girls-and-computers/#more-70
July 15, 2008 at 9:49 am
Minerva: I have never knowingly seen a choko and had to google it. Looks promisingly wrinkled, but it would take a special summer to grow them in Northumberland. But my courgettes are doing nicely. I have dared to grow aubergines, but someone has been eating the leaves illegally. On compost, old poetry books have been known to provide an excellent growing medium. Thompson’s The Seasons should be good, but I value my copy too much. Booksorting day today, so I expect to try composting old catechisms.
July 15, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Today’s Beale article, btw, in the Guardian is just a continuation of an argument which followed on from that other article I linked to the other day, in which a certain blogger insulted BM by calling him a teacher? – Never mind Billy, I remember now last time he was on GU he called me a philistine.
July 15, 2008 at 1:52 pm
obooki, maybe you could tell me who owns that blog? Just for my information. There’s an interesting “insult” recently posted on the PotW, at least indirectly aimed at me. Maybe I should start a collection.
I think I’ll just keep out of the Beale debate. All I have to say is that the Booker is such a joke as is that making it a popularity poll could hardly be worsr. I actually found myself agreeing with ATF re the most recent winner. Dreadful book.
July 15, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Scrap that request. I scrolled down the bloh page and found the name Stephen Mitchelmore. Now my problem is that I’ve no idea who Stephen Mitchelmore is. Oh well; ignorance is bliss.
July 15, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Not that it means much, but his name is Stephen Mitchelmore (on GU as stevefromthisspace, but only a rare attendant – and here he only wants to argue with Beale. I’m not sure what his position is entirely on the question of the relativity of literary interpretation, or even if he has one. It’s so hard to tell sometimes.)
July 15, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Oh, it took me a long time to type that obviously.
July 15, 2008 at 2:21 pm
hmm, an article on which books you’ve never finished. now, have we had that before?
July 15, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Made different by a poster who likes Roddy Doyle. Roddy Doyle? Roddy Doyle!!
July 15, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I just love the way “Disgrace” is one minute worth defending to the extent of trashing other bloggers, the next dismissed as “a fairly straightforward novel”….donning the lit-judge wig would seem to have resulted in an impressive change of view….
July 15, 2008 at 2:39 pm
obooki, you’re hiding your light under a bushel again,. It was “middlebrow philistine”; much richer and more evocative.
July 15, 2008 at 2:41 pm
And isn’t this a great day? HenryLLoydMoon on the poster poems blog; what more can one ask.
July 15, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I wanted to post on that ‘books you haven’t finished reading thing’. just to say that I managed to read Solitude in a single night and to say that Infinite Jest in unfinishable, just cause that usually pisses off so many people. Then I realised I’d be be a total twat to take part in a list like that.
Thank God for the Tour is all I can say.
Alas HenryLooneyMoon is also there.
July 15, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Yes, that’s it, “middlebrow philistine”. I couldn’t think of the adjective. – I was middlebrow because I thought there was too much self-referential metafiction about, as I remember (I forget what the context was), and he seemed annoyed I didn’t back up my argument with 27 examples. He talks about writing in lots of different forms, maybe he should check out the form of the opinionated blog-commenter (which is a literary genre unto itself).
fmk: and ricardo ricco the cyclist, is he clean then? and whatever happened to that colombian (?) guy – the novice, on bardoworld i think – was it the last tour? – who naively attacked all the time? i liked him.
July 15, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Finishing books is *so* last year….the last page of a book is too much like a bereavement….so I’ve resolved never again to read to the end, but to leave each book a fashionably two-thirds unsullied….
July 15, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I do wonder about finishing books sometimes. You’ve usually got the gist about 2/3rds of the way through – is it really necessary to finish off that final 1/3rd? Does it really add anything, except perhaps a certain esteem and self-satisfaction gained generally from finishing things?
July 15, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Isn’t not finishing the book the logical conclusion of the death of the author? So much easier never to have started the book in the first instance; but that’s the blogger’s default.
Can anyone explain the cult of Coetzee to me? I’ll admit to not having read Disgrace, but Diary of a Bad Year almost made me long for The Ghost Road.
July 15, 2008 at 4:04 pm
obooki: why don’t you ask me an easy question, one with a yes or no answer?
Riccò’s clean, in that he hasn’t been caught. But he has been targeted.
He’s got an exemption on the basic red cell count, being allowed go up to 52%. He’s not alone in that mind. There’s at least one unnamed CSC rider who has a similar exemption, as far as I know. And there’s bound to be others in the peloton. Statistically, some riders should have natural h-levels above 50%.
Riccò was also targeted in 2007 for an abnormally low testosterone level, but seems to have got off that when the test results was compared with other test results.
TBH, I think the biggest crime he’s committed in the eyes of some is having Marco Pantani as an idol (they were born near enough to each other) and employing the services of one of Pantani’s hangers-on.
Funnily, being British riders having Tom Simpson as an idol doesn’t seem to rouse suspicion about them.
The Barloworld rider – Soler? He’s still with the squad. He crashed on the first day and broke his wrist. He rode on for a few days but pulled out, I think, on Wednesday.
The Colombians are always fun. It’s a pity they came to the peloton when they did, right when EPO started and effectively ruled them out of contention.
July 15, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I read Youth – that’s the only one I’ve read. It was ok in a sort of dull way. I was vaguely interested in the stuff about early computing. But it was nothing that made me want to go out and read more. – I have Disgrace: I got it cos it was reckoned the greatest book of the last 25 years (English-language non-American). I’ve been reading the top ten Spanish (same category) and I wanted to compare it. Should I get Toni Morrison’s Beloved too (American version of same)?
July 15, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Bardo/Barloworld – I always think they’re sponsored by a theme park centred round Brigitte Bardot.
July 15, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Very prosaically, the last few pages of the “Dance” series were loose & fell out when I was reading (a library copy) – imagine ploughing through 2300 pages and *still* not knowing what happened to Widemerpool; cop-out though it was….?
Although devilishly tempted, I rejected the Ortonesque option, and returned the loose leaves along with the rest of the book….
July 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm
‘middlebrow philistine’,there’s an insult that needs to be voiced in a shrill lisp: Stopth fluthing my head in the toileth, you mithlebrow thilistines!
read Disgrace and Master of Petersburg – I thought they were both OK.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see that once in a while amid the hyperbolic puff quotes?
‘A towering achievement’ – John Sutherland
‘A magisterial display of virtuosity’ – Martin Amis
‘I thought it was OK’ – Ian McEwan
July 15, 2008 at 4:24 pm
WRT finishing books. These days, unless it’s a book I really, really, *really* want to read, I usually take chapters at random. The first couple. The last couple. A couple in the middle. The more I like it, the more chapters I read.
I have no problem with people not finishing books. When did this tyranny start anyway, this notion that you *have* to finish every book you start?
July 15, 2008 at 4:46 pm
That reminds – re tyranny over readers – I’m about halfway through a Daniel Pennac book now, largely because of reading his list of readers’ rights. i hadn’t been so interested in him before that (even though i’d bought one of his books).
‘Meh’ – Thomas Pynchon
*shrugs shoulders* – Salman Rushdie
July 15, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Any notable novels out there entitled “Absolute Zero”? For this would be the ultimate endorsement:
‘I thought it was OK’ – Ian McEwan
July 15, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Which Pennac? I liked the Belleville books but got distracted reading the Dictator one.
July 15, 2008 at 4:53 pm
And Less Than Zero would be sold as being less than 0K. However, I think I’d prefer Absolut Zero right now.
July 15, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Yeah, it’s The Fairy Gunmother. Enjoying it, in a sort of fast-paced, readable way.
July 15, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Readable’s alright. It’s what I liked about the Belleville books, though they flag a bit by the end. The readers’ rights book I liked. I’d like to get back to the Dictator book some time, but it’s just that it’s one of those stories that’s been told often enough at this stage. It’s the weakness of metafiction, once you know the concept, how many times can you read examples of the concept?
July 15, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Middlebrow Phillistine would be quite complimentary for me. Lowbrow Phoenician might hurt a bit.
July 16, 2008 at 12:47 am
freepoland,
I’m glad you looked up the choko. They have great vitamin C, can be roasted, then I think they would be nice with a squeeze of lemon, same if boiled. Perhaps one could add grated melted mozzarella cheese before adding the lemon.
Unsure when the fruit will come, but perhaps nice at Christmas there?
ps. Did you know that someone actually complained on a site on cif that they had been in a forum and these two women kept discussing washing!! Well Grecoverde and Leila were on that particular site, I’m unsure how they spun their clothes, but I think recorded!! I suspect I mentioned how I pegged mine.
July 16, 2008 at 8:22 am
The blurbs discussion reminded me of something I posted on a WN& blog on the good old GU. Here it is again, for what it’s worth:
Nice article, and I couldn’t agree more with your complaint about blurbs and I’m glad to see it move above the line after we discussed it down here in the pit a while back. I wonder about the star rating, on purely practical grounds. With the growing trend to refuse to release books for review pre-release, wouldn’t the stars only be available for second printings?
Here are a few suggested sentences for use in more honest blurbs:
This is a first novel. In style and setting, it should appeal to anyone who enjoyed the best-selling YYY by XXX.
This is XXX’s second novel. Due to contractual stipulations, it’s much like his/her first novel.
Another instalment in the ZZZ series. Readers will know what to expect.
This is XXX’s 23rd novel. We can’t make head nor tail of it, but his/her last won the Booker, so we’re taking a punt on it.
This is our entry in the great 9/11 novel sweepstakes.
July 16, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Well, doggerelist, I find it remarkable that there have been no posts from other great devotees of Dance. . . Loved your lists of villains and heroes, which I’ll print out and clip to my copy of the set for comparison with my impressions, the next time I read it. Can’t remember enough about secondary characters . . .
Your observation about the volume Iris Murdoch could almost have written was sharp. I assume that you were only referring to the similarity in stories, not style – since most of her novels read as if she threw her material at the wall and simply went with whatever pattern stayed stuck to it. Messy even by the standards of, say, Bellow and other American modernists, I’d say.
Two outstanding qualities of Dance are affection and acceptance.
I mean that without the smallest particle of sentimentality or gush, the series radiates an understated affection for its characters and their foibles; even the worst of them, in a way no other novel I’ve read does. . . . As for acceptance, I’m thinking of the English style of enduring the suffering that’s inextricable from living – in which the ability to see the funny side of nearly everything predominates as it doesn’t, can’t, in other cultures I know well.
This is the one novel – I’m putting all the books in the series together, there – in which I can remember precisely the passage in which I fell in love with it. It’s at the start of one of the middle volumes. Arriving at it was like the moment in English – and only English – friendships in which after years of a mysterious deepening of feeling, mysterious because deep reserve on both sides has meant that personal disclosures have come in a trickle so thin as to drive most Americans completely barmy, there’s a simultaneous perception of a rare, intense, mutual empathy and comprehension. . . And I’m including important romantic friendships here. . . Even as I type, I see how strange it is to think of a novel in this way, but that’s exactly how it was for me, reading Dance for the first time. . . . . . All that from the most casual mention of its existence by the friend of a friend.
I’d enjoy reading a comparison of it with The Line of Beauty. What I think they have in common is subtly elegant, unfussy writing, which despite passages of exceptional beauty never screams for attention. There’s something superb about the way they both flow – narrative and language go down like cream.
As for what you might read next, I’d be tempted to suggest Edith Wharton for the _huge_ fun of comparing Old New York with Powell’s London, only her four most famous novels are so relentlessly sad. Updated Greek tragedies.
July 16, 2008 at 3:12 pm
wordnerd – I’ll try to respond to this in a less daft post about “Dance”; if that proves impossible (all bar the first three books have been returned to the library), I’ll comment later….
July 16, 2008 at 3:19 pm
BTW – did anyone else notice the comment on the unfinished books GU thread which was moderated to remove a plot spoiler? I’m not against the idea per se, but where will it end? What happens on the films blog when “Psycho”, “Sleuth” or “The Crying Game” is discussed?
July 16, 2008 at 3:53 pm
thanks for the tip-off steve – jeez they’re dickheads over there sometimes.
But… I still haven’t read your blog until I read Powell
July 16, 2008 at 4:08 pm
….only after writing #58 above do I finally turn to GU and find two blogs about spoilers (Lezard’s obliquely so) and a picture of Janet Leigh in….yup….either there’s something in the air today or I need to start wearing my tinfoil hat again….
July 16, 2008 at 4:10 pm
they’re all up in arms over on Cif – seems Waltz has been banned. Mishari could smell the stench ahead of time it seems…
July 16, 2008 at 4:17 pm
What’s she done now to be banned? Cif’s beyond a joke now, after the Islamic creationist thread & all the weird posturing & trolling on Brooker’s conspiracy piece….
Meanwhile, poor Mr Beale took bit of a pasting on GU: and anyone who hasn’t followed the link in “DianeAtalla”’s comment has missed a treat….
July 16, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Yeah, that Beale. I’m sure he has entire blogs devoted to satire about him.
I thought my comment might get removed for lewdity / slander – I even toned it down a bit before posting it.
In a sense though I’m torn between subjectivity / objectivity in writing. You can’t really say literary appreciation is entirely subjective or entirely objective – it’s somewhere between the two. I shall called it “sobjective”.
July 16, 2008 at 4:29 pm
well – it’s hard to say what she’s done but there’s some insight on this non-Cif blog (oh, hang on I’ll post it separately to avoid composting) – but so many posters are jack of the new-set up and the heavy handed moderation – not that GU cares of course, they have enough traffic to justify their existence, but the whole idea of an open forum has gone to the dogs – more’s the pity
July 16, 2008 at 4:30 pm
http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-message.html?showComment=1216201500000#comment-c1849140888830229136
July 16, 2008 at 4:51 pm
#65 retrieved….btw, a tip for anyone posting links: to avoid getting spambotted, disable the link with a square bracket or similar at the start – I’ll edit it back to life when I see it, and in the meantime it can be copy’n'pasted into the address bar….
July 16, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I’ve just discovered a facility on my Opera browser that gets the computer to read out stuff on the internet in the style of Stephen Hawking. It’s hilarious. Now I just need to track down some of Des’ old posts.
July 16, 2008 at 11:43 pm
obooki – try it with (the original) “I wandered lonely as a cloud”….it cracks me up just thinking about it, although sadly my computer is mute….
July 16, 2008 at 11:55 pm
OK, I will. I’d already thought of it to read literature, but poetry hadn’t occurred to me.
I was just investigating some background on that Beale blog. I became strangely convinced that cogitoergodoleo was Beale himself. He’s only ever appeared on GU (pronounced GOO, by my speech facility) on posts by Beale, every time agreeing with him lavishly. (We would have to believe though that Beale enjoys conversations with himself, in which he’s always in smug agreement with himself. Could it be so?)
Then I started thinking maybe DerekCatermole was Beale too, because he also only seems to have posted on posts written by Beale. But then I discovered that that toast blog linked to was written by DerekCatermole. (It would be too much of a split personality, surely). They are both Canadian though. Then I remembered that Bellona, who also posted there, is Canadian too. But who is this mysterious DianeAttala, who seems to have no web profile at all?
July 17, 2008 at 12:09 am
Catermole, IIRC, had comments on GU deleted which were critical of Beale (those links to alleged plagiarism, remember?)
“Diana Athill” is mentioned in the Tel Paper Tiger Blog – which may or may not have any relation to “”DianeAttala”….not much of a pseudonym, if link there be….
July 17, 2008 at 12:44 am
Hmm, there is a literary figure Diana Athill, but she’s ninety.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/dec/22/weekend7.weekend4
July 17, 2008 at 5:40 am
hmmmm, a Canadian conspiracy; you know that DiagonalArgument who won the magnificent Hay deckchair, is a canuck …
July 17, 2008 at 9:05 am
steve: terrific array of evidence for the prosecution on the Keats PotW. I”d say that his effusions would even fail as doggerel because they lack the required lightness of touch.
July 17, 2008 at 9:26 am
truly sorry to hear about your loss Billy
July 17, 2008 at 9:49 am
“terrific array of evidence for the prosecution on the Keats PotW”
Thanks – I was going to include the “mellow fruitfulness” line too; but that’s now curiously been subpoena’d by the defence….
(I’ll be judge, I’ll be jury, said cunning old Fury….)
I know full well Keats isn’t all bad – but his Sou’western pieces seem to me particularly terrible….must be something in the water down here….
July 17, 2008 at 10:02 am
No, he ain’t all bad, but he did tend to the juvenile. As Eliot wrote, Keats and Shelley were “not nearly such great poets as they are supposed to be”.
July 17, 2008 at 10:03 am
parallax: thank you.
July 17, 2008 at 11:50 am
What is it about certain visitors to this blog tm hat makes me feel I should take up a collection for a seeing-eye . . . erm, dog?
July 17, 2008 at 12:10 pm
obooki: that question you asked about Riccò. It’s now got a yes or no answer. And the answer is no.
July 17, 2008 at 12:33 pm
fmk: what do you make of his team withdrawing? I wonder how long it will be before we witness a final stage of the Tour with just two or three riders left in.
July 17, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Saunier-Duval are a dirty team Billy. They has a lot of smoke last year and the year before. And they’re Spanish. Nuff said.
“I wonder how long it will be before we witness a final stage of the Tour with just two or three riders left in.”
Well, Henri Desgrange’s ideal Tour was one in which only one rider made it to Paris. His dream might finally come trough.
That said, I’m far from pessimistic, even if this is three positives after just four days testing. The only way to clean up the sport is to catch the cheats. And at least at last the testing is targeted at catching them and not at letting them get away scot free, which it has been in the past.
July 17, 2008 at 1:34 pm
“at least at last the testing is targeted at catching them ”
Yes, this is the crucial point, and the sport needs it to be effective.
July 17, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Here’s a question for one and all. There are a lot more comments being posted on the GU books blog this week. Does anyone think that the articles are, by any measure, more interesting?
July 17, 2008 at 1:57 pm
more inviting for wider comment perhaps? what’s on offer: List, prizes, race, poet for the people/hippy nostalgia,
July 17, 2008 at 1:59 pm
whoa hang on, pressed submit before completion …
List, prizes, race, poet for the people/hippy nostalgia,tell us how you feel, and interactive geekiness
broad palette – maybe that’s the appeal?
July 17, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Yeah, I see two posts on non-fiction (Samuel Johnson prize) managed to garner a whole 5 comments between them.
Yes, sad about Ricco. I don’t like to have my illusions shown to be mere illusions.
July 17, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Yes, the Samuel Johnson prize is a blogging lead baloon, it seems.
July 17, 2008 at 3:31 pm
well there you go – they’ve managed to slip islam and terrorism into it as well – batten down the Cif brigade hatches …in-coming
July 17, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Shirley Dent and political poetry, again. Tell me her piece isn’t about political poetry, again. Please, tell me I’m being cruel assuming it’s about political poetry, again.
July 17, 2008 at 3:59 pm
You’re being cruel. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, though.
July 17, 2008 at 4:05 pm
FWIW, I thought there were some good articles this week. I always enjoy a good Keats bunfight, the race in fiction thing is interesting, and I was quite pleased with my own modest effort. The wrong book (i.e. the easy choice) won the SJ; I think the Crows book might have set off a good discussion if it had won.
July 17, 2008 at 5:11 pm
SD seems to be banging on more about bad poetry than the political this time….disappointed not to get a name check, actually, considering
July 17, 2008 at 8:11 pm
But steve, would you want to be namechecked alongside the Children’s laureate? Followed some of the links in SDs piece and they were disappointing, (except for the Stuffed Owl reference) even though I have an addiction to bad verse. It is possible for the Higher Doggerel to be abused as ‘Bad’ poetry, but is unwise to risk such a definition. State Registered Doggerelists know bad verse when they see it, but why should they give their professional opinion gratis? Much less venture a demonstration.
July 17, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Speaking of State Registered Doggerelists.
Looking at the news yesterday of an EPL limited overs competition, I wondered when poetry was going to get it’s act together and do the same.
July 17, 2008 at 8:46 pm
freepoland – yes, the links were disappointing….and a dearth of comments so far….
This was posted on one of Sam J’s threads almost exactly a year ago & touches on the point of Bad Poetry (I’d write a few bits differently today, but no matter):
Why punish Bad Art when it’s found?
It has a most important role;
It keeps the plebs’ feet on the ground.
They know their place; they have no soul.
We need Bad Art to scoff and jeer;
I give you an example here….
meanwhile, Sam’s sacrilegious jest runs foul
(riverruns foul, Ha!) of all that’s decently
and honourabilious, random clause, funny word, Howl!
(where was I….oh, yes) stuff written recently
being streamly less good less by the mile
less yonderandbonkersly good, meanwhile….
Without the Bad Art, what is Good?
The pair make up a nexus.
Good Art should not be understood;
Its role is to perplex us.
We need Good Art to pay to view
Alas, it’s something I can’t do….
July 17, 2008 at 9:21 pm
It’s a shame someone picked on Julian Gough (on the Leonard Cohen thread) for plugging: admittedly lots of terrible sites get plugged on GU (including this one….) but JG’s blog is one of the more entertaining….I agree with Billy that the poems linked to were excellent; and JG is one of my favourite commenters too: an all-round star….
July 17, 2008 at 10:49 pm
I am reading one of his novels (as I mentioned to him the other week: he seemed pleased, if not shocked). It’s funny. – Julian Gough, that is.
July 17, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Yes, his reaction was interesting….I’m tempted to try one of his books….
July 17, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Hmm, that Beale thread is becoming more interesting. cogito ergo etc. has uncovered her identity (seemingly a “genuine” poet and critic), and a long post also from everybody’s favourite commenter (esp Mishari’s).
July 18, 2008 at 1:36 am
What is a “genuine” poet, I wonder….and what does a fake poet look like….
July 18, 2008 at 1:51 am
Hmmm….hers is a technically impressive site….and simultaneously irritating….I looked at four of her poems….none of which appealed….but she’s definitely a “genuine” poet….in that she genuinely thinks she is….
July 18, 2008 at 6:19 am
I see the footer waves a ‘proudly canadian’ flag – so, a patriot to boot
‘to boot’ in the ‘into the bargain’ sense, of course
July 18, 2008 at 8:03 am
the beale thread … (loved your ‘turf-war’ comment obooki)… i hate with a passion the pontificating superiority that poster bring to threads – cogito’s “Correct” brings out the party-gatecrasher in me. I’m resisting posting a sweary oik comment just to spoil the snottiness of the thread.
July 18, 2008 at 10:43 am
http://xkcd.com/451/
July 18, 2008 at 11:36 am
i refused to read Shirley Dents article, to avoid any mental or emotional irritation. It´s hot where i am. Terror poems and terrible poems, what a mess. Really meaning political terrorist poems? Mad. Indeed. Horror poems have been written, haven´t they? And they will continue. I am planning to write a whole series, with and without blood. And they won´t be terrible, but clever and shocking.
I will always remember how my “Song of Guantanamo Base” was welcome on the GU´s threads, several months ago (with shock and even disgust).
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
Strange uses of english
I had a razor blade in my hand. “I will use it on you” – my son hears. It is called Occam´s razor and very good for cutting away extraneous material –we have both learnt.
Yet he resists, thinking that no parts in his body are extraneous.
We postpone the argument and i return the blade to the hairdresser´s.
(Totally stupid, i agree).
July 18, 2008 at 11:49 am
A gem, fmk, a gem.
July 18, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Heh, heh – a great link indeed….shouldn’t you post it on Beale’s thread?
July 18, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Oh someone else can do that if they want, I can’t be arsed getting sucked into that debate. Not with the Tour on.
July 19, 2008 at 12:57 am
‘I am planning to write a whole series, with and without blood.’
YOU, ros, a bloodthirsty little beast? . . . [the shattering sound of illusions gone phut]
Make sure you don’t forget them line breaks, now.
July 19, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Your bamboo is going nuts, cs. Eight shoots so far. RIP the bergenia I’m sorry to say-bloody slugs.
July 19, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Glad to hear it, M Le Chevalier….my clump here is rolling around in the wind….I originally fell for this bamboo because of the way it rustled in the breeze at Great Dixter….as for the Bergenia: they’re very much an acquired taste anyway….at the base of that bamboo here we also have a big shiny exotic-looking fern & some francoa, which works well….also a carpet of self-sown cyclamen – once you get a few established they spread like weeds – I read somewhere that ants carry the seeds around….
July 19, 2008 at 2:50 pm
So glad to hear bamboo doing well; I note he didn’t attend roll call.
July 19, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“Make sure you don’t forget them line breaks, now.”
I try hard never to forget them, dear wordnerd7.
what do you think? Does english average reader reject the notion of horror poetry after E Allan Poe? Something like an allergy to Shelley and Keats, verging on the other side?
Can’t you imagine the gems of bad taste to be produced/created?
==============================
D. Hind has published on the CiF a very articulated piece on conspiration, anticonspiration psycho types, etc.
July 19, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Reading your fine depiction of the Retiro has made me insane with envy, ropeofsand. Here rain has been falling intermittently all day and it’s cold enough to wear a sweater. And this is almost as far south as the UK goes.
I see Swords has returned to GU. A most appropriate pseudonym.