Wordsworth’s worse words….
July 8, 2008
We need a break after 300+ comments on the last thread….and this is all there is: apologies to anyone offended, but in all fairness, this is my first smutty doggerel here….I shan’t make a habit of it….
I fondled lovely Miss McCleod,
Palpated all her hills and dales;
When all at once she cried aloud:
A ghostly haunting banshee wail….
July 8, 2008 at 1:41 am
“doggerel’s insane,
wordsworth, a bad name,
give me back my head
for long it has bled!”
……………..
July 8, 2008 at 4:27 am
doggerlist,
You had a blog that attracted very few comments when I entered; with innocence I sought to bolster the number to help. You now have a number of contributors.
I don’t need the world you and others here live in. I live thankfully in a very peaceful one, in the world of the Spirit of God.
July 8, 2008 at 5:36 am
behold the snake, down by the knees
shuddering and lurching in a sneeze
July 8, 2008 at 5:41 am
Wrapping around from the previous thread:
mishari says PS-parallax, de-construct away.
Thanks mishari – when a poem is ‘released’ it takes on a life of its own. For you it was about your trip home from Paris, full of warmth and welcome, but for me it kept niggling away with much darker portent – that’s why I wanted your OK to talk about it because it’s the words and not the author that I’m responding to.
I’ll paste the poem here so it’s in front of me as I type away:
Home Is The Hunted
On the train, I drink and contemplate
The pleasure of saying,
“It’s out of my hands”,
Mine and your fate
Will be decided on some other date.
Riding on rails never fails to please,
I take my ease,
We’ll get there or we won’t.
I have another drink.
At last, I disembark and walk past
The engine, the sloping predatory snout,
Like an upside-down shark
And just as fast.
Looks like it feeds on badgers
And suicides.
At home, my wife says, “You reek
Of brandy”, but she’s smiling
And my youngest buries her head
In the crook between my neck
And my shoulder, inhales deeply
And says, “Cigars”. She likes the smell.
Travelling to my heartland is the
Journey I like best; always something new
And strange here; the exotic is far too
Familiar, the familiar is a mystery.
Here, I am the monarch of all I survey;
Or I am when they let me be.
Ok – first off, I guess the sense of transition is always floating around in any story that has a journey as its momentum; so impending change is mostly what I get from the poem – and ‘hunted’ in the title is definitely edgy – so unease at the outset, but coupled with predatory, shark, and suicides it’s beginning to look pretty sinister…
Then cigars, brandy, and a distant home that is warm and welcoming, but distinctly separate from the outside world of business and deal-making, takes on a flavour of decadence mixed with völkisch values … then we have ‘heartland’, which has an uncanny resonance with homeland, and given that the poem charts the father’s/monach’s return, (you see where I’m heading?) maybe even ‘vaterland’.
Bolted on to all this is the core phrase ‘it’s out of my hands’ and with that comes all the pontius pilate washing of the hands connotations …
‘Home Is The Hunted’ has been shadowing me for a while now, it spookily resonates with a Weimar/Nazi cusp in time. If it was taken out of the context of poet (mishari) and time (2008) it could easily be critiqued as the moment in the Isherwood era when fascism began its catastrophic rise.
All in all, it’s very disturbing, and I wonder if it is picking up reverberations in the current political climate?
A great poem, mishari – thanks for letting me mess with its interpretation.
And no, I’m not suggesting you’re a fascist ….
July 8, 2008 at 5:44 am
hey where did the cool smiley dude with sunnies come from? that should have been 2008 inside brackets
July 8, 2008 at 5:53 am
parallax, imagine you going to sleep when i wake up or viceversa)
~~~~~~
doggerel, after giving some thought to spam cases you suffer, the whois’ searches and other suspicious things, haven’t you thought of the most obvious, simple answer? Of course, you’re wise. I can’t spell it out because they would call me a conspirationalist. but there you are.
~~~~~
On a more joyful note:
art pepper = Picasso (cubist period)
freepoland= Max Ernst
melton mowbray= Hunderwasser
billy mills = joan miro
~~~~~~~~
(finding matches for the others, they will come!)
July 8, 2008 at 5:56 am
“I don’t need the world you and others here live in. I live thankfully in a very peaceful one, in the world of the Spirit of God.”
that’s cute!
July 8, 2008 at 5:59 am
What a fascinating take on it, para. It’s odd that you should mention the political and cultural climate. Although it hadn’t been my intention to make my concerns explicit in the poem, I have been reading and thinking about fascism.
In the weeks preceding that poem I’d read American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America by Chris Hedges, The Politics of Cultural Despair; A Study in the Rise of Germanic Ideology by Fritz Stern and on that actual train journey, I’d been reading I Will Bear Witness 1942-1945: A Diary of the Nazi Years by Victor Klemperer. And it’s true that the rise of a new fascistic world order is something that has been worrying me a lot of late.
How strange that you should pick up the echoes of it. Either my preoccupations are not nearly as discreet as I think they are or your antennae are remarkably sensititive. Perhaps both…but thanks for a fascinating analysis…
July 8, 2008 at 6:01 am
Parallax,
Well you are picking up, I think a little.
Mankind is a pawn to the spiritual world, but inbuilt is reason and that we need to exercise. Otherwise we are, merely animals.
My reason was necessary in this exercise, I was after all, a dummy; but then that has been the case many times.
I start,
In the heavens sat they down
The chess board on the table
The pieces set to play….
then the game continued….
an analogy to this is the story of Job…
July 8, 2008 at 6:04 am
sorry ropeofsand,
no go.
July 8, 2008 at 7:43 am
I fondled lovely Miss McCleod,
Palpated all her hills and dales;
When all at once she cried aloud:
A ghostly haunting banshee wail.
Beside the bed, beneath my knees,
A-screechin’ and a-yellin’, ‘No more puhleeeze!’…
July 8, 2008 at 7:51 am
Ah,
Little RabbitFooey, you are making me wonder who Miss McCleod is? Perhaps a figment of your imagination….
July 8, 2008 at 8:41 am
Also from the previous: Arties is not a typo, it’s a small village in the Spanish Pyrenees, with a very lovely Romanesque church.
July 8, 2008 at 9:04 am
BTW, parallax, thanks for picking out ‘Immrama’. I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m quite pleased with it myself. I liked all the poems you mentioned, and more besides. Have you seen freep’s latest on the Memory thread?
July 8, 2008 at 9:07 am
Hi Minnie. Did you mean fig leaf and yes if so? Hey this is doggerel’s place and I know where mine isn’t. Dunno why the Artie-Tartie real poets aren’t helping him out, is all, and I thought I’d help him kick things off even if I’m keeping my clothes and Manohlos on.
July 8, 2008 at 9:50 am
Yes, freep’s poem is very fine, (nothing new there), and inspired me to write my inferior effort on the vagaries of memory.
July 8, 2008 at 11:09 am
No inferior efforts _here_, Misharious. . .
July 8, 2008 at 11:10 am
Sorry not to have been able to return in time to answer about Wid on the GUsundheit, dgg, . . . hope that your trenchant analysis of the problems at that site did wonders for lamppost sniffing stats.
Well, yes, . . . this latest _did_ raise an eyebrow. Ahem. But about this . . .
‘in all fairness, this is my first smutty doggerel here….I shan’t make a habit of it….’
Do you suppose any of us believe that for a second?
cynicalsteve
Comment No. 483342
April 26 (2007) 12:51
I wandered, desperate for a piss
Whilst walking by the Canyon Grand
Dare I let fly o’er the abyss?
Or should I use a rubber band….
cynicalsteve
Comment No. 489004
May 1 (2007) 10:45
Whoops – that would be me with the superfluous apostrophe….but it’s (ha!) still a terrible poem – its (HA!) iambicness notwithstanding….
I wondered ’bout that airborne kite
That floats on high oe’r “that’s” and “it’s”
When all at once I saw the light
And realised that “its” best fits…
. . . Promises, promises . . .
July 8, 2008 at 11:30 am
Just to make my earlier note to Misharious clear . . . I meant, I haven’t seen anything by him here that would fit the description. If he means, at the other place, I wouldn’t know — there are often long gaps between my post-scannings, over there.
July 8, 2008 at 1:05 pm
parallax, thanks for the appreciation of mish’s poem, which I’d been meaning to say that I liked very much too, more than any other of his offerings. It stuck in my mind…’the familiar is a mystery’ and, in particular I liked the title – an echo of Robert Louis stevenson (nearly my favourite writer), and in some odd way, the ‘hunted’ takes on universal connotations when later the poem returns to a warm and affectionate domesticity …. It is hard to use excessive compliments in this everyday and fleeting medium, but I think it is a great poem; the risk at the end of the throwaway line , ‘Or I am when they let me be.’ comes off.
It must be the spam that’s giving everyone bad teeth.
July 8, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Perhaps there is a lesson for all of us, namely,
if we are not invited in to comment, or speculate on another, then we shouldn’t and any action for another party, at any time, would only be done and endorsed with their sanction.
Aside from that, it would always surely have been known, we should not judge.
July 8, 2008 at 1:36 pm
wordy, if it’s got an ‘o’er’ in it, it’s a proper poem.
July 8, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Tactful and considerate though it was to see parallax ask permission before commenting on Mishari’s poem, I’ve always assumed that anything posted online is fair game for comment….and surely no-one posts any verse thinking it can be ring-fenced against comment (or disapproving sniffs, as with Miss McCleod….)
Poets and doggerelists should in my view be limited to a handful of “o’er”s in a lifetime….
July 8, 2008 at 2:57 pm
…archaic constructions show serious intent..or just save the metre. Get o’er it, cs.
July 8, 2008 at 3:02 pm
PS, I agree with Steve. It was very courteous of para to ask but there was really no need. Like cs, I think that if you post work on a public forum, any comment is fair, for better or worse.
July 8, 2008 at 3:03 pm
PPS- and thanks for the generous words, freep…
July 8, 2008 at 3:03 pm
With ne’er an o’er nay poem he’ll make
Nor wind the wind for auld time’s sake.
July 8, 2008 at 3:07 pm
PPPS- (I really must stop this), RLS has long been one of my favourites. freep. I’ve been after cs to read Travels in the Cevennes With a Donkey and An Inland Voyage for some time…not to mention all the other great stuff, The Silverado Squatters, The Amateur Immigrant, et al…
July 8, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Limited o’ers poetry? How about Twenty20?
July 8, 2008 at 3:23 pm
mish: It’s a wonderful life’s work, when you think about it, wherever you look – Donkey, Treasure Island, Jekyll & Hyde, Weir of Hermiston … not the mightiest of poets, but always readable pomes. And I think Kidnapped is near perfection for plot and pace. Don’t know if you’ve read his letters, but there’s a Yale Selection (ed Ernest Mehew) in paperback. They are full of life and wit and energy. He writes to his parents like this in May 1883:
My dearest people, I have had a great piece of news. There has been offered for Treasure Island – how much do you suppose? I believe it would be an excellent jest to keep the answer till my next letter. For two cents I would do so. Shall? Anyway, I’ll turn the page first. No – well – A hundred pounds, all alive, oh! A hundred jingling, tingling, golden, minted quid. Is not this wonderful? …
It’s humbling to think of this man, ill most of his life, dying at 44, and producing all that magnificent writing.
July 8, 2008 at 3:24 pm
“Limited o’ers poetry”
‘Twould be interesting, contrarily, to see just how many o’ers, ne’ers and the like one could fit into a four-liner….I wonder what the record is….?
July 8, 2008 at 4:39 pm
As you say, freep, a wonderful body of work. I’ve always felt the man’s character shone through his work-amused, tolerant, good-humoured, generous, affectionate, kindly, brave, endlessly curious, never embittered though dogged by ill-health. I would have loved to have met him, but I feel like I know him through his work and I feel a great affection for him.
July 8, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Ne’ermore can’st summon
My poor dog Rover;
‘Twould be well;
Alas, ’twas Rover passed o’er.
July 8, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I’ve no idea whether WW had a dog – but if he did, he’d surely have called him Ro’er….
July 8, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I see BillyMills was mentioned in this place:
http://this-space.blogspot.com/
and a few other regulars.
July 8, 2008 at 7:56 pm
This is for Melton Mowbray.
I found some fine lines on Wight in the Sonnets of Charles Tennyson Turner. The third line in this garbage is from his sonnet on the Needles Lighthouse. Turner should be revered by all serious doggerelists, as author of the greatest sequence of sonnets on dead dogs, incl ‘The Drowned Spaniel’. He was also adept at o’er and ‘twixt and the rest.
The Vicar of Ventnor Quails
at the Approach of a Moorish navy.
‘Tis o’er! The Solent’s deepy gulph ere now
Was ne’er e’er breached by pirates’ whelming prow.
The mighty Vectian wold and tawny tract
Of shingle, ‘gainst martial foe all patriots had back’d.
Yet now, is’t the ruffian Paynim lands unstopt?
His swart retainers with their foreskins cropt?
Methought, ‘Ought these our lands in blood be dipt?’
And in my aw’struck fear crept, crapped in crypt.
July 8, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I’m on t’white cliffs o’ Do’er
Thinking it o’er ‘n’ o’er
But if I jump it’s all o’er
A cautionary tale for you
I’d like to roll in t’clo’er
With you o’er ‘n’ o’er
On t’white cliffs o’ Do’er
‘nd then I’d let you push me o’er
Thank you Blur.
July 8, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Damn, I missed a ’tis.
July 8, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Thanks fmk,
If you wish to enrol here, I’m sure you are most welcome o’er and o’er
doggerelist – your call…again ……o’er…
and …..(I suspect I am)…… out.
July 8, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Here being where? Are you steve’s new doormat?
July 8, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Were you talking to me fmk in your 39?
I’ll let Steve explain, after all it is his ‘here’
You see, I’m up for retirement and looking forward to it.
July 8, 2008 at 8:59 pm
That might have been a tpyo. And then again …
July 8, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Oh what a _scrumptious_ misunderstanding
. . . [rolls down steep hillside laughing]
‘Twasn’t ‘o’er’ but ‘it’s’, m’dears, to which the second cynicalsteve creation from the archives refers . . . something way up-thread in that blog about Daffodils. You’ll just have to read it all to see what he meant, an exercise with a bonus — BM as Bohsfan in haut pontiff mode . . I included it with his Grand Canyon post as another fine example of how Willy’s Daffy’s turn on _all_ his lightbulbs — o’er an o’er again.
. . . then if you read _after_ cs on It’s, you might learn something important about spending a quarter in San Francisco. . .
RL Stevenson also a lifelong favorite of this nerd. The earliest lines that have stuck in memory, after nursery rhymes.
July 8, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Minerva – Yes I was. You said “If you wish to enrol here” and I asked you where here was. That too complicated for you? I could do it with single syllables if you need. Or do you need pictures?
The “doormat” might have been a tpyo. And then again …
July 8, 2008 at 9:03 pm
‘I included it with his Grand Canyon post’
I meant, of course . . . cs’s, not Bohsfan-BM’s . . .
July 8, 2008 at 9:08 pm
obooki’s #35 rescued & reinstated – haven’t clicked the link yet but sounds like it might be of interest to people here….
July 8, 2008 at 9:09 pm
fmk, re your 43
and did you miss my 40?
July 8, 2008 at 9:13 pm
So you are offering to enrol me in steve’s blog? Is that what you’re saying? Which is basically something you can’t do. Do you normally offer to do things you can’t do? How tiresome.
July 8, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Well fmk,
It was my 40, but with recent insertion al la doggerelist, it now turns out to be 41..(see insertion of obooki’s 35)
cease Steve, until it sinks in….hold all spam omissions…
July 8, 2008 at 9:19 pm
‘how Willy’s Daffy’s’ . . .
Such infectious confusion! . . . that was meant to be, Willy’s daffies . . .
July 8, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Having now read obooki’s link, it seems a GU posse inadvertently lynched someone’s sacred cow….
July 8, 2008 at 9:21 pm
fmk, re your 48
that is one of the reasons I am so thankful I am retiring…
please review my 39 and my referral to doggerelist.
However you must now look for another referral; I cannot nominate you.
I am sure he will arrange.
July 8, 2008 at 9:24 pm
And ANOTHER tangle . . . no Ming icon, boo hoo hoo . . .
wordnerd7 Said, rendered into Ming:
July 8, 2008 at 9:19 pm
‘how Willy’s Daffy’s’ . . .
Such infectious confusion! . . . that was meant to be, Willy’s daffies . . .
July 8, 2008 at 9:27 pm
When in a hole – dig on….
July 8, 2008 at 9:27 pm
‘that is one of the reasons I am so thankful I am retiring…’
You mustn’t even think of retiring, Minerva. You’re a tremendously welcome addition . . .
July 8, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Yes, always lots of holes . . . here, too:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/04/terrible_poet_great_museum.html
July 8, 2008 at 9:40 pm
wordnerd7
Are you still laughing! You know what changing and additions do to text when referenced.
I’m a welcome addition? I’ve been here all along! I taught the invisibles!
For sanity’s sake, I need to retire.
No reflection on the invisibles, I’m very happy to know them.
July 8, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Steve: links for you as promised. Try this one, appropriately on enough on (hollow) canned laughter: http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/000330.php
July 8, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I think I liked something in this one too http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n10/zize01_.html although he used the Huntington’s gene quandary a bit too much subsequently. If you’ve already come across him using it, skip this one.
July 8, 2008 at 10:26 pm
This one was more interesting for the timing of it, being early in the debate. Others have probably made his points seem tired by now. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v24/n10/print/zize01_.html
July 8, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Poland, free thyself from the savage claw
Which dependeth from th’arm of Rooshian bear,
Take up th’instrument of war and strike the maw
Which drops its gore ‘pon this Europa fair.
Britannia is with thee in thy glam’rous fight!
(Tho’ Ld Palmerston cannot help, ye understand)
‘Tis time to stiffen thy Slavick loins and smite
And so forever wilt thou be free, Poland!
July 8, 2008 at 10:43 pm
This is representative of his editing-on-the-hoof style. http://www.egs.edu/faculty/zizek/zizek-welcome-to-the-desert-of-the-real-1.html It’s the third version of his Matrix=9/11 spiel, put out shortly after the Towers fell. I think if you change the digit at the end of the URL you can access other versions of it.
It’s actually based on a much older piece, which is the better one being more about films and less about politics. If you liked the Matrix, you’ll love this. And if you didn’t like the Matrix, this might make you love it, a little: http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9912/msg00019.html
July 8, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Seems you might have missed fmk, that I think you are a most welcome addition to Steve’s blog;
I merely tried to point out that I am not the determinator, nor in any way was it my right to be so.
and might I say your o’er is exceptional.
July 8, 2008 at 10:52 pm
MM: Awe fills me. I had quite forgot ‘pon.
July 8, 2008 at 10:56 pm
steve: that’s about all I have on links, you’ll be glad to hear. I was looking for the earliest version of the chocolate laxative one but can’t recall it at this stage, and it’s been repeated so much subsequently that it’s almost impossible to Google swiftly.
I’m not vouching for the contents of those links, or saying that I agree with them 100%. More they’re the main ones I recall as being entertaining / thought-proving / not too annoying.
July 8, 2008 at 10:57 pm
fmk – I’ve read the first two Zizek pieces now: the canned laughter piece had me constantly pressing the “ffs” button….he makes the kind of connections and arguments that are fine as throwaway blog comments, but rather weak on which to base an academic reputation….the second piece on genetics was meatier, although I’ve had similar conversations in various uni coffee rooms – contrary to popular belief scientists take a keen interest in the ethical consequences of developments in their respective fields….
Thanks for all the links – I’ll read the others later & maybe comment more – but now I have to hand over the computer to M before I get severely battered about the head….
July 8, 2008 at 11:04 pm
How facinating,
We are now moving from o’er to ‘pon,
—–
so sorry I had to delete the above line
———
———
and even more sorry I had to delete the next two!
July 8, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Thanks for that link, obooki.
Good to see OffClowns being appreciated in other parts of the blogosphere. Would be delightful to see his sharp, clear mind at work over here.
‘Are you still laughing! You know what changing and additions do to text when referenced.’
Harder, dear Min., thanks to the sour humourless one badly in need of bunny-suiting by lovely marionincandenza. Think I might look up that part of the archive next, as I wait for a telephone repair man to appear . . . But I do agree about the chaos that can follow from posting extracts in a hurry — that’s why I posted the link for those cs parodies in 56 . . . That said, I wouldn’t have missed What Hath O’er Wrought for all the world. . .
Oh Min, . . . who are the invisibles?
July 8, 2008 at 11:20 pm
“he makes the kind of connections and arguments that are fine as throwaway blog comments, but rather weak on which to base an academic reputation”
Well to be honest, I’ve no idea what makes his *academic* reputation. Just his pop cult one. Maybe Lacan is a cushy ride in academia.
I’m not sure the comments are as throwaway as you suggest, but do agree about the linkages – always, his linkages seem to stretch a bit far. Which is why, I think, I sometimes find myself only liking parts of the piece and skipping over the awkward bridge bits.
I’ll have to skim them again, but IIRC the canned laughter one right, I liked the point about interpassivity in it, that everything is enjoyed for us and we don’t have to – aren’t allowed – enjoy things ourselves anymore.
On the torture one, as I said, timing has altered it. Though it reminds me I must find out if Z has ever said anything about 24. I’ve had the mistfortune of seeing a boxset of it recently, for the first time, and can’t believe how bad it was. A wacky theory from the Slovenian might rescue it for me.
July 8, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Ditto on yours, freep. That ‘deepy gulph’ is a classic coinage. Though, to get Millsian about it, I should point out that Ventnor is on the south side of the Island, so the ‘ruffian Paynim’ wouldn’t have to cross the Solent to invade it, unless they were taking the scenic route.
On all those contractions, I’ve always assumed (I don’t recall ever discussing it) it was done to fit the words into the metrical scheme. Am I right?
July 8, 2008 at 11:31 pm
fmk,
This isn’t a funny, it is something I need to know….
would you please check back on the current (as of 11.24 GMT) 37,38,39
and tell me why you have misunderstood me,
I write this sincerely, with thoughts of maybe addressing
ps I think via the right sided brain,
again not a funny (I am left handed)
July 8, 2008 at 11:37 pm
And what do you know. He *did* write about 24. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/jan/10/usnews.comment Sadly he didn’t save the show for me. And that is a pretty pointless article, reheating the earlier one and ending nowhere.
July 8, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Wordnerd,
You ask ‘who are the invisibles?’
come on!
July 8, 2008 at 11:42 pm
“On all those contractions, I’ve always assumed (I don’t recall ever discussing it) it was done to fit the words into the metrical scheme. Am I right?”
That was what I always thought. A way to skip a beat. While looking properly poetic.
But tell me – can you contract contractionitis by reading too many o’ers and ‘pons and the like? Should this blog be quarantined at this stage?
July 9, 2008 at 12:18 am
a posse lynching a cow eh?
i’m beginning to develop this theory that steves don’t get along. i certainly don’t like other obookis.
July 9, 2008 at 12:19 am
Contractionitis: an apostroph’ catastroph’
I suppose these o’ers & so on started life as metrical aids – but some C18 & C19 poetry (the o’er oeuvre?) gives the impression that they became de rigeur for other, more pretentious, reasons….contemporary oe’rs I would tend to read as tipping the wink that seriousness is not to the fore….
July 9, 2008 at 12:47 am
‘Twas an interesting link obooki – thanks for that. I’ll be keen to see Billy’s response (if he hasn’t already seen that blog.) There’s a fair degree of intussusception here btw, commenting on this blog about a blog which comments about another blog….
July 9, 2008 at 12:52 am
So instead of being distracted from distraction by distraction today we blog about blogs about blogs about … things. I really should have found that chocolate laxative, I think. It might have helped me work this one out.
July 9, 2008 at 12:54 am
BTW steve – I’m counting your symptoms. I think DEFRA might be the responsible agency to call in.
July 9, 2008 at 1:00 am
….or Ghostbusters….
July 9, 2008 at 1:05 am
That first Zizek piece, btw, is almost a word for word rendition of a chapter out of How to Read Lacan – without the Lacanian quote about tragic chourses (which is perhaps as well because it’s bollocks). For what it’s worth, I couldn’t agree less with his statement: “When I come home in the evening too exhausted to engage in meaningful activity, I just tune in to a TV sitcom; even if I do not laugh, but simply stare at the screen, tired after a hard day’s work, I nonetheless feel relieved after the show.” – No, I don’t. Usually I hate myself.
July 9, 2008 at 1:08 am
Wouldn’t Ghostbusters cross the streams? IIRC, t’would be bad. Though DEFRA turn you to toast if they think you’re infected. Maybe a bit of bad mightn’t be too … bad.
July 9, 2008 at 1:11 am
Yes obooki, I find that statement hard to believe too. Z pigging out in front of the telly when he’s got that hottie to stroke his beard … doesn;t work for me.
Personally, canned laughter is one of those things I’ve never really liked.
Curiously though, I like live albums. People cheering for me works so much better than people laughing for me. Go figure that one out.
But I read recently that there’s a Freudian explanation of why live albums sell so well.
July 9, 2008 at 1:26 am
“Z pigging out in front of the telly when he’s got that hottie to stroke his beard … doesn;t work for me.”
How about: “X-rated movies are no longer primarily the means to excite the user for his (or her) solitary masturbatory activity – just staring at the screen where ‘the action takes place’ is sufficient, it is enough for me to observe how others enjoy in place of me.”
July 9, 2008 at 3:00 am
Have just spent an hour in wikiland, starting with Lacan, and following link after link about Sokal, Malley, literary hoaxes and so on….don’t know whether I’ve learnt something, been royally entertained or thrown away an hour of my life….
July 9, 2008 at 7:19 am
Loinstiff’ning Melton: Forgot to look closely at Vectian map. Of course I meant the Canon of Cowes, which left a syllable lacking … I think o’er and ‘pon were originally to fix syllabic euphony, but then became markers of a true poetic sensibility and refin’d taste.
July 9, 2008 at 8:25 am
“I’ll be keen to see Billy’s response (if he hasn’t already seen that blog.)”
I hadn’t, but now that I have, I don’t see anything worth a reaction. An ad hominem, a quote from one of my comments on the non-novelist, and a complete lack of any attempt to refute my opinion: what’s to respond to? Who owns that blog? Not much cop, whoever they are.
July 9, 2008 at 8:27 am
And steve, here’s a link I hope you’ll like:
http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/concordance/wordformlist.php?Letter=O&pleasewait=1&msg=sr
July 9, 2008 at 8:28 am
And here’s an even better one; a triumph for the Wiki way, for Web 2.0 in general. What an answer!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_word_o‘er_mean_in_shakespeare_talk
July 9, 2008 at 10:23 am
“What an answer!”
But dammit Billy, what *kind*? Pumpkin?
“Have just spent an hour in wikiland, starting with Lacan, and following link after link about Sokal, Malley, literary hoaxes and so on”
Wiki’ll rot your mind. Entertaining as the latter two undoubtedly are.
July 9, 2008 at 10:24 am
I see that the Comte de Monte Melton has escaped from the Chateau d’if. Let me assure you, my dear Comte, I played no part in grassing you up to les vieux guillaumes. Nor did I steal Mercedes, the fair Catalan from you. I trust you harbour no grudges.
Yours Faithfully, Fernand Mondego
PS- Much as I would delight in a re-union, I find I have pressing business in Kirghizstan.
July 9, 2008 at 10:50 am
fmk: If you want it to be pumpkin, just make it so. It’s the Wiki way. (BTW, I am not responsible for the current answer).
July 9, 2008 at 11:06 am
Make it so? You’re a Trekkie?!? Ha!Ha!
And I don’t edit Wiki’s. It’s against my religion.
July 9, 2008 at 11:14 am
If the booksblog had sound effects, we’d hear vibrating sonorous snores answering nearly everything on the front page — particularly yesterday’s and today’s additions. . . How many more articles about worthy little bookshops the size of mice teeth, dear Lord, how many more . . . An article about a politician’s reading list that begins by saying that there’s no point taking anything on it seriously because he’s um . . well, immensely compelling . . . BUT, gosh, . . . a politician!
We should be able to shout, BOOooooo! Point Made Already! . . . by below-the-liners in blogs about Brit politcos! . . . NEXT! . . . and have this feeble attempt at stirring us up instantly replaced.
July 9, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Anyone here done the Gruan’s survey?
_________
Journalists are accountable for their contributions by putting their names to the articles that they write.
Do you think that people who post comments on blogs should be accountable in the same way?
[Option A] Yes people who post comments on blogs should be accountable for their contributions and lose the option of being anonymous
[Option B] No people who comment on blogs should not be made accountable for their contributions
and should have the option to be anonymous
[Option C] Don’t know / don’t mind
_________
In your opinion, which of the following statements best describes the effects of anonymity on blogs?
[Option A] The quality of blogs is cruder and more aggressive when people who post comments are able to be anonymous
[Option B] The quality of blogs is better when people who post comments are anonymous because they can be more honest and open with their views
[Option C] Don’t know / don’t mind
_________
Do you think that blogs should be moderated before they are published online?
[Option A] Yes, moderating blogs would improve the quality, tone and focus of debate
[Option B] No, moderating blogs would hamper the freedom of debate
[Option C] Don’t know / don’t mind
_________
July 9, 2008 at 1:01 pm
fmk: I know some ugly things get said on blogs, but calling me a Trekkie is beyond the pale.
July 9, 2008 at 1:04 pm
You’re right Billy. It was totally uncalled for. I apologise most sincerely and hope the hurt caused by my thoughtless insensitive comment will soon heal.
July 9, 2008 at 1:17 pm
fmk – I started doing that survey on a quiet night some while ago, thinking, fair enough: I criticise them frequently so ought to give them some usable feedback. But as the questions rolled on, I became more and more irritated with the daft and unsubtle options offered, so quit. If they do go down the route of insisting on real IDs, as many of the questions seem to hint, they’ll shoot themselves in the foot – and furthermore, they’ll have not one iota of effect in dealing with Bloggers Behaving Badly….
….although as wordnerd points out, a few more weeks of tedious blogs and they may have few Bloggers to Behave Badly….
July 9, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Memo To A Grauniad Editor
In any sort of medium
I ask for little more
Than minimal dull tedium
Or else I seek the door.
July 9, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I’ll heal, fmk, I’ll heal.
As for this week’s comments tally on GU, even PotW is struggling. Maybe it’s holiday season? Is there a link to the survey somewhere?
July 9, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Going back to those “o’ers”, I forced a little ditty last night with the punchline (which I still like & will try to use elsewhere): “O’erpaid, o’ersex’d, o’er’ere”, although o’erall it was too crap even for ‘ere….
July 9, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Billy: http://survey.confirmit.com/wix1/p658899352.aspx
July 9, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Thanks, fmk. Now, in answer to your earlier question, yes, I’ve done it. I’d advise anyone who wants to keep their anonymity on GU to do the same.
July 9, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Just completed that survey, which came up when I went to post another message condemning the new cif format. The survey is a washout, really. It is about ’sustainability’ and is designed to see if the Guardian can influence its readers to walk more and put drinks containers in the right bin. To me, that is the worst side of the Guardian: its pious belief in a mission to alter behaviour, lifestyle and the rest. Are we a Good, Kind, Responsible and caring Newspaper? Every organisation these days has a mission statement, but only idiots believe in them. I’ll settle for good reporting and intelligent opinion.
Naturally, I voted to defend anonymity, but in the context it seemed pointless.
Thanks for the Shakespeare concordance, Billy, and the Wikianswers. ‘Pon my word, shopping is e’er so easy on this site, Steve. Ripe fruit just falls o’er the brink into your wire basket.
July 9, 2008 at 4:58 pm
freepoland – just came across your Cif comment – pretty unlikely they’ll ever revert back to a user-friendly format though….they seem to have stopped claiming that they’ll reconsider the pagination & somehow magically speed up their new ad-heavy software….I still check out the Cif index page, but much less frequently now do I read the articles – and have as near as dammit quit commenting there – even though my time frankly isn’t that valuable, I can no longer be bothered to jump through the requisite hoops….
Am reluctant to renew battle with the G’s worthy questionnaire: I take Billy’s point that we should make our views known on the anonymity issue, but I’ve already done that several times on relevant threads which are no less unrepresentative than the self-selecting group of people who did the questionnaire….if they didn’t listen before, they’re no more likely to this time….as a matter of principle, I never answer personal questions unless absolutely necessary, whether they be ‘phone questionnaires (“we’re not trying to sell you anything, but…” ) or online surveys….
And yes: we get some great links posted here….I still have to catch up on fmk’s Zizek links from last night….
July 10, 2008 at 6:29 am
The black and white photo of Elizabeth Bartlett on PoTW is very disconcerting … the hooded eyes and the hooked nose – very avian. I’m totally distracted from her words with that picture. A vulture! god, yes … that’s what the photo reminds me of.
July 10, 2008 at 6:30 am
or maybe a budgie?
July 10, 2008 at 7:27 am
Just catching up on this thread:
Billy@14 “Have you seen freep’s latest on the Memory thread?” Indeed yes, ‘Letter to an Old Friend’ wonderful – but then freep’s words and constructions often leave me gobsmacked. Check this out from Slippage:
Taking words to oblivion, but leaving
White shapes in the maelstrom of meanings
that’s precisely what’s left behind when you connect with someone’s poetry – that after-flash image that stays with you. I have a sneaking suspicion that freep *IS* a poet, well not even a sneaking suspicion more a ’sans nul doute’ impression. Fucking ace.
mishari@8 “How strange that you should pick up the echoes of it.” hah! that’s great that it connects … also slightly weird … maybe I should set up a tarot reading service, give Jonathan Cainer a run for his money.
doggerelist@23 “anything posted online is fair game for comment.” Yes, absolutely agree steve, it was just that even though I don’t *know* mishari – in the sense that he could run me over in his chariot and not notice, or I could elbow him out of the duty-free queue at Heathrow without a by-your-leave – I still feel that I *know* him and owed him an explanation before I ploughed in with a neo-nazi reading of his poem.
July 10, 2008 at 8:53 am
parallax: personally I wouldn’t favour passing judgement on anyone based on a photo on the GU books blog. Oh no.
July 10, 2008 at 9:28 am
Judging by photos can be a mistake. Take Mills. I got one look at that phiz- the baleful, hooded gaze, the heirloom ‘tache, the Bee Gees circa 1967 haircut- and I thought ‘uh-oh, a wrong ‘un…but do-able.’
I dispatched a team of my crack ninja assassins to Limerick to ‘deal’ with him. I felt it was my duty. How was I to know that Mills had spent many years in the mysterious Orient, (bong, plink, hiss, ssshhh- insert appropriate inscrutable oriental sounds), studying at the feet of Hoo Da Phuc. Shao-Lin master and heir to Fu Man Chu?
They came upon Mills in the wooden tea-house that stands mid-lake on his estate. He sat in the lotus position, eyes closed. When they approached, he spoke words of power.Then he summoned up kundalini energy through his chakras, which then shot out of his eyes like beam weapons. My boys were toast. Mills sent me their ashes in an old tub of Kerrygold Irish butter. I got the message. Mend my ways or I was next. I’ve been busy mending ever since.
My sons have been on a Stargate Sg-1 binge since getting the complete 10 season DVD set recently. I’ve been watching along with them. Can you tell?
BTW, I haven’t seen a single swallow so far this year. Usually the skies are full of them by this time. How about you non-Londoners? Are you seeing swallows?
July 10, 2008 at 9:33 am
Not a one, mishari. But then they might have flown into my forcefiled before I saw them.
July 10, 2008 at 9:34 am
Or forcefield, even.
July 10, 2008 at 9:49 am
Swallows galore here, Mishari – well, the usual goodly handful anyway….there is one who regularly drops by, sits on the top of the open window to this room and entertains me with that peculiar mixture of whistles and clicks….almost tame….M managed to photograph this particular swallow or swallette and that picture is now the computer desktop background….
Not many moths so far this year though….I usually have to close the window at night lest I get suffocated by hordes of the creatures….but recently, hardly a one….
July 10, 2008 at 10:01 am
I take it, Bill, that you would usually be seeing swallows by this time, no? And you’ve got them, cs.
How odd. I always take such pleasure in gazing up at them as they quarter the sky, the glorious aerobatics, the almost insolent ease of their flight. What are those lines of Hopkins?
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,–the achieve of, the mastery of the thing!
I really miss them. I wonder what’s going on?
July 10, 2008 at 10:09 am
Here’s the proof:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27647409@N08/2655470946/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27647409@N08/2655470942/
(and, yes, the window frame needs attention….)
July 10, 2008 at 10:21 am
Lovely, cs. I’m envious. So this is in Devon or the south-west, at any rate?
July 10, 2008 at 10:26 am
BTW, have you noticed that since I took the Grauniad to task for inviting me to ‘join the fray’ and then banning me for, erm, joining the fray, they’ve changed it to ‘join the conversation’.
I guess they took my advice and looked up ‘fray’ in a dictionary.
July 10, 2008 at 10:37 am
Yup: not too far from Tiverton….the swallows usually arrive here towards the end of April, just before the dairy herds are released from their winter immolation….they thrive on the bugs associated with the cattle….and nest in the numerous decrepit outbuildings….the nests are often taken over in subsequent years by other small birds, such as wrens….they’re surprisingly feisty birds: I’ve seen them divebombing cats….
July 10, 2008 at 10:39 am
The head of Zimbabwe’s secret police is named Happyton Bonyongwe.
Happyton? I’ve long known that God, if here is a God, has a dark sense of humour.
July 10, 2008 at 10:45 am
I’m convinced that the swallows have decided that any city that could elect Boris as mayor is no place to raise kids and are giving London a miss.
July 10, 2008 at 11:28 am
From the Kuwait Times newspaper, July 10, 2008
KUWAIT: Sheikha Fariha Al-Ahmad Al-Sabah, the head of the Supreme Committee for the Ideal Mother Competition, has expressed her disappointment at media attacks on her by some writers opposed to the Parliamentary Committee for Studying Negative Phenomena (also known as the ‘Alien Phenomena’ committee).
This followed attacks on her work in the media after the committee invited her to contribute to its efforts, given her long experience in working with cases of sexual and social deviancy, including gay people and Satanists.
Sheikha Fariha said that the writers who had launched these attacks were either unfamiliar with the phenomena in question or were consciously attempting to destroy the morality, values and wellbeing of young people in Kuwaiti society. She also claimed that many local websites and other sources in neighboring states hold negative views about Kuwait due to the prevalence of such phenomena here.
Moreover, she claimed, university lecturers in some neighboring states have started citing examples from Kuwait when addressing the subject of deviancy.
Sheikha Fariha insisted that it is deviancy alone which causes the phenomenon of homosexuality and that this phenomenon can be successfully treated, with many sufferers coming forward for treatment, knowing that their behavior is abnormal and morally repugnant.
She said that one local female journalist had written an article about homosexuality which took up a whole page of a local newspaper and suggested that homosexuality is widespread in schools and shopping centers. She added that, following publication of the article, a number of outraged readers had warned the newspaper not to publish any further articles about homosexuality.
Shopping centres?…and people ask me why I spend so little time in my own country.
July 10, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Steve, I’m surprised you’re not over on GU telling the world how your great marketing tool has boosted sales of your books
July 10, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I suppose I could invent a few….as it is, I have nothing to promote but my assonance….
July 10, 2008 at 4:09 pm
And what a lovely one it is.
July 10, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I quite enjoy the occasional article/blog like Milway’s….even with an open invite to plug it’s amusing to see who’s shameless and who’s diffident about it….and to be honest, I’ll probably click on some of those blogs in the middle of the night….
I’ve been tempted to try writing fiction (or more fiction, as there are still some who think my details hereabouts are embellishment)….where I come unstuck is only being able to come up with fragments of ideas – I can never work them into a coherent plot or story….has anyone else here written any fiction?
July 10, 2008 at 4:40 pm
parallax. Thankyou very much for your kind appreciation at 7.27 this morning. I’m back teaching writing and poetry to old lags in gaol again for the next few weeks, and I can now take in one or two poems to talk about. Since you liked that line about white marks in a maelstrom, I’ll try it out on a few murderers and see what they make of it. I hope for sponsorship from the Central Committee for the Extirpation of Immorality, a new Straw initiative modelled on Kuwaiti principles.
Liked Happyton, mish. Fyi, there was a breastfeeding counsellor in Newcastle called Mrs Bosomworthy.
July 10, 2008 at 9:26 pm
“I dispatched a team of my crack ninja assassins to Limerick to ‘deal’ with him.”
LMAO. Even ninjas don’t enter Limerick these days. That is the Bad Lands. Even the Shinners are shocked by the amount of guns going off in that town.
I have a feeling mish’s ninjas might have bottled the job when they did a quick Google and fed their employer a lot of BS has to what happened.
July 10, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Todays Private Eye alerted all Chav Newkey-Burden fans to an interesting little experiment. Go to Amazon.co.uk. Search Chas. Check the reviews of his ‘books’. One reviewer in particular, username ‘read all about it’, is wildy enthusiastic about wee Chas. Click on this reviewer’s profile. No info. However, click on ‘Wish List’ at the right of the page and this reviewers list of desired books comes up, along with the reviewer’s real name, which is…Chas Newkey-Burden.
Mucus Man has outdone himself,the pitiful little twerp. I do hope we have another piece from him soon. This is an especially satisfying stick to beat him with…not that I’m a vindictive man..oh, alright, I am…
July 10, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Chas is really that dumb? Heh,heh….
July 10, 2008 at 11:57 pm
it’s all good publicity for him, i’m sure. – he’s got a real thing about israel, hasn’t he (and i don’t just mean the gay clubbing scene in tel aviv).